Download The Manage Track Podcast: What First-Time Managers Need to Unlearn & Do Differently to Succeed – With Jason Scott Transcript

Podcast Transcript

Ramona Shaw:

If you wanna hear from an experienced leader who’s not only started and built a number of companies on his own, but is also helping other companies go through transformations about what it takes to step into a leadership role and letting go of habits that made you successful as an individual contributor, then this episode is for you on the show. Today I’m joined by Jason Scott. Jason is a CEO founder, speaker, author, instructor, and location independent nomad, who’s recognized as an expert in the transformational leadership space. He runs the Transformational Leadership Academy, where he leads a 14 weeks certification program. He runs a number of companies, as I said, and is very well versed in the project management space he has hired. He has seen, and he has probably fired a number of leaders throughout his career. And in his work today, he often talks to his leaders and the clients, but what it means to succeed in leadership.

Ramona Shaw:

In this conversation, we’re gonna talk about what it means to lead, what he wished he knew as a new manager, what challenges and struggles he actually sees a lot of managers struggle with as they transition into leadership or claim the ranks. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, and I know you will too. You’ll get a ton of insights and hopefully new ideas and perspectives out of listening to this podcast episode. So without further ado, let’s dive in. Here’s the question. How do you successfully transition into your first official leadership role? Build the confidence and competence to lead your team successfully and establish yourself as a respected and trusted leader across the organization. That’s the question. And this show provides the answers. Welcome to the Manage Track podcast. I’m your host Ramona Shaw, and I’m on a mission to create workplaces where work is not seen as a source of stress and dread, but as a source of contribution, connection, and fulfillment. And this transition starts with developing a new generation of leaders who know how to lead. So everyone wins and grows. In the show. You’ll learn how to think, communicate, and act. Ask the confident and confident leader you know, you can be.

Ramona Shaw:

Jason, welcome to the Manager Track podcast.

Jason Scott:

Hey Ramon, I’m super excited to talk to you today.

Ramona Shaw:

I was just saying to you before we hit record that I was researching your background and it’s like multiple rabbit holes. I could go down on <laugh> to learn about you and what you do. But in your own words, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today?

Jason Scott:

Oh my gosh, yes. But talking about myself isn’t my favorite. I don’t know how I got where I’m today. I think I got where I am today just by trying things, being super curious and being willing to fail and never giving up. I grew up in a terrible neighborhood. As soon as I was old enough to join the military, I did. The Navy was super cool because they will let you do anything you’re willing to volunteer for no matter how dangerous it is, <laugh>. So I did, I learned a ton. Like everything that I was interested in, I learned how to drive a giant ship pilot, a little boat. I learned how to drive a forklift. I learned how to weld. They let me become a naval rescue swimmer. They made me work for that one. That was like a good setup to where I went, which was project oriented or just helping other people get the things that they needed done, done. Because the military is very mission focused. They rotate us every couple of years into a different job. You know, once I got out, I ended up in project management and it just sort of fit because I’d help somebody build something and then I’d get assigned something completely different and help them build that. And that’s essentially how I get into the transformational outcome business.

Ramona Shaw:

But now you also do a lot of work with leaders. What does that look like?

Jason Scott:

So, I mean, at the end of the day, nobody hires a leader because they want their organization to be the same in a month, six months or a year. And being a leader is completely different than being an individual contributor. And so most people before they’re leaders, they’re individual contributors and they get promoted because they do a great job getting the job done, coming up with great ideas, executing those great ideas, and then they get their first team. And the sad part is, in that very moment, everything that they’ve learned up until that point is no longer useful to them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> leading is exactly the opposite of doing. And your job as a leader then is to enable your stakeholders to define and deliver the necessary and expected results. Like leaders are in the business of building winning teams. There’s actually some beauty in that.

Jason Scott:

I’ve taken over my career, a ton of turnaround projects where the teams were not getting the necessary or expected results and their morale is terrible. They were working weekends, they get yelled at for picking up their phones during dinner. And so when we turn the project around, and by that, like I’m the leader, but I’m not the one doing the work. My job is to help them architect their own roadmap to success. And that’s totally different than doing or even telling, right? And so once we turned it around and the team was winning, they were happy, they had greater quality of life. No team building necessary. Like when you’re on a team that’s winning, you feel like a part of something. When you’re on a team that’s losing, you don’t want be a part of it. You want disassociate with it, right? <laugh>. So I kind of laugh a lot when people are like, oh, you know, we wanna bring in a consultant, usually me, and we’d like you j Scott to do like a team building exercise. And I’m like, I could do that. Or I could just help you guys get the results that you want. And we’ll just call that a team building exercise. ’cause they will feel like a team when they are delivering the necessary and expected results.

Ramona Shaw:

I love how you said as a leader, it’s all about creating winning teams as the main headline when you are talking about these things. And even the way that you framed it as I help them architect the roadmap to success. For the people listening who are now saying, okay, sounds great, but what actually do you mean Jason?

Jason Scott:

It’s like an interview in the transition that we’ve been experiencing for the last 10 or 15 years where society has realized that the in business, the command and control, I tell you, do model isn’t very effective. It’s super effective if you just need people to do rudimentary things and not think. But in today’s environment, we have to constantly infatuate our consumers, blow their minds. Innovation is the word of the day, right? And in order to create innovations or new ways of working or doing or being, we need a bunch of people to come together and commit their intellectual horsepower to these endeavors. And so back to how do I then help them architect their own roadmap to a shared goal? It’s really easy. I I, I come in and I say, or the leader, and this is very important, we’ll talk about the difference between a leader and a boss in a second.

Jason Scott:

So the leader says, we have to solve this problem. Here’s why it’s important to us. And that could be anything from, we’re gonna go to the moon and back in the next decade. Or Hey, we’re gonna replace our globally disparate financial systems. We’re like a large global company and in each country we’ve got a different financial system and we wanna bring them all into one system. That makes a lot more sense for us. We can handle our data, like all the things that you read about these days. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I’m gonna set the expectation, establish the goal, and that’s where I am no longer the expert. I then need to look at my experts, find the right people that have the right expertise, bring them onto the team by verifying that they have the right expertise, and then asking them how they would accomplish this thing.

Jason Scott:

And so it really starts by, Hey Ramona, I think we need to do this thing. Do you agree When you agree we do and we should. And there’s value in it. I’m gonna say, is this in your lane? And when you say, yes, this is exactly in my lane, these are the problems that I solve, I’m gonna say, okay, do me a favor and walk me through how you’re gonna do it. Like an interview, just like you’re doing with me right now. And then I’m gonna listen. Now, couple of keys to this. I’m not listening thinking, is this how I would do it? I want to help you figure out, Ramona, how you would do it. Because the way that I would do it is optimized for me. Yeah. The way that you would do it is gonna be optimized for you. More importantly, I’m helping you architect your roadmap, which we’re always more excited about than somebody else’s roadmap to accomplishing this shared goal.

Jason Scott:

Right? So I’m listening and I’m thinking, do I understand how this will work? Now we’ve been taught as the manager, we judge it. This will or this won’t work. This is our whole job. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> to be the decider. When in fact this is actually not true. When I realize, I don’t think the thing that you’re describing is gonna get us there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’m gonna say, I don’t understand. Here’s what I hear you saying. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I don’t understand, which is different than that won’t work. Yep. First that won’t work. Shuts down the conversation. Two, it’s an assumption. ’cause how many times in my life have I thought something wasn’t gonna work and then it did <laugh>. Right? It’s a surprise. So humility is also good leadership in that I’m gonna say, Hey Ramona, I don’t understand. Help me understand you’re gonna be happy too.

Jason Scott:

And then I’m gonna ask questions. You’re gonna help me find what I might be missing. And somewhere in the conversation, you’re gonna give me a piece of information that makes the path forward. Clear your path forward, clear. Or I’m gonna ask a question or I’m gonna share my thought on something. Or challenge you to say, well, if you do that, might this happen? And you know, you might go, Ooh, I didn’t see that. And you get a piece of information mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then you just change course. Well, based on this new piece of information, j I would do it this way. And now I’m like, I see it. And so now we’re aligned. It’s not about me telling you how to do it or you coming up with whatever you wanna do. It’s about us as a team working me as the interviewer. Mm-hmm.

Jason Scott:

To figure out what you’re gonna do and how you’re gonna do it. In the end of this, we have all the unicorns that ink and Forbes Magazine tells us as leaders, we need to do, I’ve stitch you up for success. ’cause we both think it’s gonna work. We’re both very comfortable. Yeah. It’s your roadmap. So you’re very comfortable with it. You work through it. I help you think deeply through it. Right. You’re committed. We’re told as leaders, we assign the work in this narrative. Did I assign anything? No, I asked you. And by the way, when somebody commits to something freely, that’s a good commitment. That’s what we’re looking for as leaders. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So like I said, we have alignment. I’ve set you up for success. Uh, and more importantly, that’s also what teamwork looks like, right? Because I may be the leader in this particular narrative, but I’m also a member of the team.

Jason Scott:

And, and that’s the cool thing about the difference between a boss and a leader, is that leadership isn’t appointed. I mean, as a manager, we have authority. ’cause we hire and we fire, and we could decide who gets the bonuses and who gets the pay raises. And we could use our authority to motivate outcomes. Except for it’s not very motivating. I always ask groups of people, like, remember the boss that made you feel like your job was to work really hard so they could be successful? And then I ask people to blurt out like one word emotion for how they felt. It’s always negative. Yeah. And then I’m like, remember that person that like who, who you knew you worked for, but like you felt like you were working alongside them. They, they gave you critical feedback, it made you feel good. Like how did you feel?

Jason Scott:

Always positive. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So as a manager, we can, instead of using our authority, we can motivate with, uh, influence or just like I just said, great teamwork. Like, okay, help you explore how you’re gonna get something done. And the coolest thing there is a manager can do that, but then just anybody on the team, like, so there’s times where I have the authority, I’m the founder of the company. I’m the c e o, and I have team members come to me and say, Jay, we should do this. And I’m like, yes, we should. Because I loved it because I got it. Because they told me why. And I thought it was beautiful. And so who’s the leader in that moment? They are.

Ramona Shaw:

They are.

Jason Scott:

And then probably also the subject matter expert, because how do you think we should do this <laugh>? Yep. And then get, get to leading. And my favorite comparison is Martin Luther King. Nobody pointed him the leader of the human rights movement in the United States.

Ramona Shaw:

Yeah. I did an interview. Oh my gosh, so much that you shared here that was, um, in front of me powerful. And I took some notes for myself too. They were like real golden nuggets and quotes that I wanna highlight. One of the things that you shared earlier was first off you said, what’s, what is like, amen. Right? When an IC gets remote into leadership, the things that got them there are not the things that are gonna make them successful as a leader. And it’s like the message, even a lot of people get this intellectual, it’s like, oh, it’s nice to hear, but they still go and act and work from this mindset that, you know, being the go-to person and being the one who has the ideas and all the answers is making them a good leader. And so not just on intellectual understanding that, but really acting from that place is very different in a day-to-day role.

Jason Scott:

Totally. And, and I, here’s the thing, I did the same thing. I heard that, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, <laugh>. And looking back, I’m so frustrated by that. Like that, that saying, what, what got you here isn’t gonna get you there. Because it didn’t serve me. Like I heard it and I was like, totally, I get it. And then, and then I did exactly as a new manager, as I did as an individual contributor, right? Like, yeah. And so I heard it. And here’s the thing. I really think it’s more helpful to explain what it looks like, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we know what it looks like to be an individual contributor. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you know, that’s why I like to talk about the active listening. It’s like an interview, right. Really describe the process. It looks totally different. So if we can give more examples of what individual contributorship looks like and what good leadership looks like, I think that’s much more powerful. That picture that we can paint in people’s heads than it is Totally. You know, these, these cool sayings like, what got you here will get you there.

Ramona Shaw:

Yep. Yeah. A hundred percent. I focus a lot on the leadership system in my work with really developing the routines and the habits. Yes. There’s something say about the behaviors, right? And the principles. And even I think, you know, in my book I talk about, and generally a lot of my work is around mindset shifts, because it takes a different mindset to think, you know, I get a lot of job satisfaction out of being the go-to person or being the one who gets work done to then seeing like, okay, now I get a lot of job cho from seeing other people get work, and then I don’t get anything done on my to-do list. And that change, that requires a shift in, in our perspective, a shift in our mindset and our identity, and so much that we have to make that switch in order to be successful leaders.

Jason Scott:

It’s super significant. In fact, the reward system, our neurochemistry mm-hmm. <affirmative> reward system changes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, when you’re an individual contributor and you’re getting that satisfaction from getting things done, your brain is rewarding you with dopamine. Yep. Which is one of the four neurochemicals that make us feel good. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> feeling happy or satisfied because you helped others succeed is serotonin not dopamine. So literally the reward system changes. And it, I like to tell people it’s like tantamount that when you’re like a whiskey drinker, you’re like, whiskey, not vodka whiskey. And when you’re like a vodka drinker, you’re like, no, vodka not whiskey. And really going from individual contributor to leader is like switching off your, you know, whiskey for vodka, et cetera. It’s almost like you have to go to rehab to become an effective leader. Yeah. It’s really kind of messed up.

Ramona Shaw:

Say hey spots and like go through the discomfort of like starting to learn how to like vodka <laugh>.

Jason Scott:

Right. And I’ll tell you, I, I have, I have celiac, so I can’t have wheat. And I was diagnosed at 40 and I’m almost 50 and I was a whiskey drinker, but whiskey’s made with wheat. Yeah. So I couldn’t have it. And so now my go-tos are like tequila and rum. And here 10 years later, you’d think I was fine with it. And I am not. I am not. It’s hard. You know, the first obstacle for ICS to manager is they have to give up the thing that’s been driving them. Totally.

Ramona Shaw:

Oh my gosh. I’ve, I’ve used a bunch of analogies for that transition, but that one <laugh> I’ve never heard. I love it. <laugh> trying to learn to love, right? Learn to love a different reward system. So good.

Ramona Shaw:

There’s something else that you said. I wanna quickly emphasize this. You said to recognize that my approach is just my approach and it’s not their approach. And I think there’s, this is really important because oftentimes we operate from this mindset that our approach is the right approach. Like I know and I can see clearly this is the way we’re gonna go and this is the right way to go. It’s definitely one of my biggest pitfalls as a new managers that I thought, well this is just the way you do things and it’s the best way. And I did not recognize that while we are very similar as humans, there’s also so much of cognitive diversity and different strengths that if we pretend or assume that we know best, we completely miss the point and we’ll miss the mark. And you highlighted that really beautifully in your story there.

Jason Scott:

Yeah, right on. I mean, we, we shut down collaboration. Yeah. When we do that, you know, which is necessary for innovation, it, you know, leveraging the collective IQ is about looking at all the different stories. I, I think what you just described is so human though. I, I feel like everybody can relate. Most of us that are successful, that end up with a team, we do see a right way to do it. And here’s another one of those cliches. There’s no one right answer. There’s no one right way to do everything. Again, I wish somebody had explained that to me because when I heard it the first time, I was like, yes. And then I thought my way was always the best way for like a really long time <laugh>. And so we don’t have time to get into it today. But learning about our biases, learning about the ladder of inference, learning about confirmation bias really teaches us that the vast majority of our decisions are based on assumptions and very little on fact.

Jason Scott:

And so there is room for multiple stories or multiple approaches to getting the things done. And back to you said cognitive diversity, recognizing and even admitting that there’s not just one right way to solve something also gives us space to realize that we’re different in a really great way. I don’t know why everybody wants to fit in. Like we’re different in a great way. And therefore if I give people space to approach things the way that they would to solve one, just observing makes me better. Yeah. Because I’m learning, I’m learning, oh my gosh, here’s this approach that my brain never would’ve come up with. How, how many times in a week do you hear somebody talk about how they would solve something and you go, oh my God, I never would’ve thought of that. Mm. Yeah. Like I never would’ve thought of that. Like the way that my brain works, it would not have occurred to me. And yet now that they’ve said it out loud, it’s so obvious it enhances the leader because it fills our toolkit with things that our brains wouldn’t have been able to come up with. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And again, it allows the individual to optimize the approach to their strengths.

Ramona Shaw:

So I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here for a moment because I can hear the voices of, you know, listeners, <laugh> clients of mine who sort of push back at times on this approach because they say, let’s assume someone is in a startup. It’s very fast-paced, a lot of initiatives running at the same time, limited resources and constantly having to justify or optimize for their performance and the performance of the team or the productivity. And if they think, well, I’ve built this, or I know exactly what the answer should be when I look at a problem or when an employee or direct report brings a problem to me and now you’re saying I should create alignment or help them create a roadmap, well I don’t have the time for that. Like, I should already be in two other meetings and I, I already know what’s the right way to go. So what’s the answer to that?

Jason Scott:

There’s so many answers. First and foremost, this goes back to this being human in that I don’t have the time I know how to do it. This is generally speaking, fear of failure driven. And so here we all are responsible for a team, which means that we can’t do it by ourselves. So that’s the first thing. First, all of these people that are like throwing stones maybe at what I’m saying, have to recognize that whatever it is that they want to accomplish, if they could do it by themselves, they would’ve, because that’s way simpler. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> than pulling together and leading a team. So we become leaders because we want to accomplish something greater than ourselves. Now if you can accomplish that thing by hiring people that you don’t need to think, then do that and then tell ’em what to do. But again, there lies the conundrum because that doesn’t scale.

Jason Scott:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> having a lot of hands doesn’t scale as far as having a lot of minds that are capable of executing. So then this comes back to the fallacy of, I’m in control. I’m the smartest person in the room. Again, you might be the smartest person in the room, but you are definitely not smarter than all five people combined in any room. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so this is a story that you tell yourself you don’t have time. If they just do it my way, it’ll be fine. Except for whenever I challenge people on that, how often that that has worked out to be true. They’re trying to be efficient and in being efficient, they create drag. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> because they just tell somebody how to do it. And that somebody hasn’t thought through it, hasn’t experimented with it. Right. Hasn’t architected their own roadmap. And so the second they encounter an obstacle, they’re right back to you.

Jason Scott:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so you’ve made yourself the bottleneck. And we all know what bottlenecks do. They slow things down. So we can be efficient with things. But with human beings, the slow way, generally speaking, connecting with them, helping them figure out how you’re gonna do it ends up being the fast way. Because you’re not just gonna get a better outcome the first time. You’re gonna get a better outcome every time. More importantly, you’re building this person to a point where they’ll know everything that you know, plus everything that they know. And every day that I graduate somebody on my team to being better than me, ’cause I’m stagnating, my job is to be the leader. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’m not the smartest person on my team anymore. I’m not the most, you know, as far as subject matter expertise goes. Like I’ve got people in marketing, sales, engineering, project management, product management. Right. Like, I couldn’t be the master of all of those things. And so my whole job is to make them better, faster, and stronger than me. And then when my customers are like, Jay, dude, I cannot believe how much you get done. I can laugh and say, it’s not me. I have a team. They’re my superpower. So building your team is a superpower.

Ramona Shaw:

And just saying like from someone who has run so many different companies and does so many different things, including launching a new outdoor equipment company just recently, that means something because you couldn’t do all this Right. Without having built the people who now run the show in many different areas.

Jason Scott:

Yeah, absolutely.

Ramona Shaw:

That ones launched.

Jason Scott:

Yeah. And with next jump, the next jump outfit is the company that you just referenced. I obviously am, have a passion for outfitting the trucks and the trailers and the boats, but that was a hobby. And I have a 120VC to run. And so I needed my first hire to be a mechanic, somebody that knew how to work on the trucks and the trailers. But it was really important to me that, that it was somebody that knew how to do that, that, and they come with tools. It’s amazing. Different industries, the things that they come with. <laugh> Austin, this guy that I hired, he’s got like $22,000 worth of like tools, but I needed somebody that wanted to be a leader that wanted to build something. And so on day one, what are we doing? He and I, it’s just, you know, we’re tearing down walls.

Jason Scott:

Like we are working with the contractors to get him to get inbuilt. He’s been with me for months now and he hasn’t put his hands on a wrench. Right. And he’s excited because I, from day one, I trust him. We talk. Yeah. We align, we come up with a plan together. He’s executing and he’s so far outside of his comfort zone and excited to come to work every day. Oh. And he’s excited at some point to get his hands on a wrench, but I didn’t hire a mechanic. I hired a leader that knows how to work on vehicles and then together we’re gonna hire the next team member or the next leader. And so at the end of the day, my focus is never just to hire people with subject matter expertise. It’s always to hire the next leader in my organization. ’cause then I scale.

Ramona Shaw:

Yeah. And I think that’s something that every leader, regardless of where they are in the rank or where they are across the organization, or if it’s in a small business, their own business, that’s a big question to ask, who is it going to be the next leader really building up everyone and developing for leadership. So thanks for giving a very convincing argument here. In terms of <laugh>, my question of what the pushback is when people say, well, I don’t have the capacity or the time to ask and align and be curious and so forth. I just need to tell people what to do. But sometimes when people ask me this, I say, I get it. You know, this is where you’re at. But what you’ll likely find is two years down the road, the latest could be six months from today or a year, you’ll run into a time management and scalability issue. Like you said, people will keep coming back. If you find yourself in a situation where your direct reports are constantly asking you questions or are procrastinating on work that you’ve delegated to them, it’s likely because they had no say in it. Yep. And they weren’t trained and developed to think on their own. Yeah. And so you’re constantly the bottleneck and that creates a scalability issue. But it creates, first and foremost, the most painful is usually for leaders to recognize I have a time management issue.

Jason Scott:

Right. Because it’s funny, I hopefully gave the intellectual response, but when you said, you know, I don’t have time to do that. My, uh, old j you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> military J wanted to be like, how’s that working for you?

Ramona Shaw:

Yeah.

Jason Scott:

<laugh> like, how’s that working for you? <laugh>? And if you keep doing what you’re doing, you never will because the way that you’re working is optimized for the outcomes that you’re getting today. And if you’re feeling like you’re too busy and you’re overwhelmed to do these things, the only way you’re gonna get different results is if you operate differently. So, you know Yeah. May maybe try doing what Ramona advises.

Ramona Shaw:

Yeah. And what, what Chase had beautifully explained just now. Um, this is really awesome. I wanted to ask you as we sort of closes, um, the conversation, if you think about first time managers and going through this transition into leadership, what is it that you wish all of them would know on day one? Like, what’s something that you say on day one, here’s the letter to you or the quotes to you. Keep that in mind as you learn the ropes of leadership. Yeah.

Jason Scott:

Leadership isn’t about you. It’s not about me. It’s never about the leader. When we decide to take on a team and lead a team, the key performance indicator is that we enable them to define and deliver the necessary and expected results we’re playing for them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, when they’re successful, we are successful. Now that creates a serious conundrum because at least for me, and the vast majority of people that go from being an individual contributor to having the first team imposter syndrome is just wrecking them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And even if they don’t realize it’s imposter syndrome, they’re at least terrified because now they have a team and they don’t want to go backwards. And the number one priority in their lives is to be successful. And so I’ve just told the person who has this team that needs to be successful, that it’s not about them. And here’s the thing that need to be successful is about them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. You’re playing for you when you’re like, I have to be successful. You’re playing for you. So what I advise is let that go, let it go. Know that you’re not gonna be the best leader on day one mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but if you play for you, you will be the worst leader on day one.

Ramona Shaw:

Oh, so good. Yeah. Amen. Once we hold on, when we think it’s about the success and the success is tied to me just putting myself in the shoes, that mindset, it immediately makes me wanna control everything. Right? Yeah. I wanna control the narrative. I wanna control the people. I wanna control what we’re doing and when we’re doing it. And in a remote environment, I wanna know when they’re working and make sure that I get the status updates, <laugh> and Yeah. ’cause then it’s about me and making sure I look good and I’m successful.

Jason Scott:

And that’s not what leaders do. Yeah. It’s not.

Ramona Shaw:

Yeah.

Jason Scott:

We hire leaders to take our team members on the journey because we don’t want our organization to be the same in a month, six months or a year.

Ramona Shaw:

Yeah. That brings it back to what you said in the very beginning. Wow. Thank you so much.

Ramona Shaw:

Yeah, <laugh> like a nice wrapping to this. A nice bookend. Jason, thank you so much for being on the podcast and sharing this and, and talking about your own examples and, and lessons learned from leading different industries and a range of different roles. You have a lot going on. So where would you say, if someone says like, Hey, I wanna know more about Jason, where, where do you want them to go? Where should I learn more about you?

Jason Scott:

Oh gosh. Connect with me on LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, check out 120VC. That’s the company that enables people to get the transformational outcomes that they’re hoping for. It’s our leadership company. Um, I always struggle with this, the answer to this question or check out next Jump Outfitters if you’re into like outdoor venture <laugh>. Yeah.

Ramona Shaw:

We got options. We do like a dropdown and then, um, right. What is it?

Jason Scott:

I’ve got books for sale on Amazon.

Ramona Shaw:

Totally. Um, let’s start with LinkedIn and with 120VC Sounds perfect. Yeah. Yeah. 120VC. 120VC. Awesome. Thank you so much for being on the show, Jason. Oh, my pleasure. Ramona. What a fun conversation. Zoom high five. High five. Yay. If you enjoyed this episode, then check out two other awesome resources to help you become a leader people love to work with. This includes my bestselling book, the Confident and Competent New Manager, which you can find on Amazon or@ramonashaw.com slash book. And a free training on how to successfully lead as a new manager. You check it out at ramona shaw.com/masterclass. These resources. In a couple more, you’ll find in the show notes down below.