Download 21st Century Entrepreneurship Podcast with Jason Scott: Great Leaders Don’t Wing It; They Prepare And Practice Transcript

Podcast Transcript

Martin Piskoric:

How do you think your experience as a rescue swimmer in the United States Navy has influenced your work as a transformational leader?

Jason Scott:

Oh my God, that’s such a good question, because it is, it is directly related. I learned something about myself, uh, through that process that I didn’t know. So, um, uh, naval rescue swimmers have the second, their training program has the second highest attrition rate in all the militaries to the navy steels. So more, more people wash out of seal training that wash out of rescue swimmer school. But at the time, the rescue swimmer school had the second highest washout rate. So, whoa. Um, I, I, I dropped outta high school to join the Navy to get away from my family. I probably didn’t have a great self-image. No, I mean, I definitely did not have a great self-image at the time. Um, and the, the best thing that I didn’t know I was getting myself into was that the Navy will let you volunteer for absolutely anything that you’re willing to do. So I learned how to drive a giant ship. I learned how to drive a fork truck. Truck. I learned about technology. I learned how to weld.

Jason Scott:

And then one day, the, the captain opens tryouts to the whole ship for Naval Rescue Swimmer school, which is unusual. And here’s the reason, because it’s so hard. They, the two that they had transferred, and they had sent two more to the school and they washed out, they sent two more to the school and they washed out. And a naval vessel can’t leave the dock without two rescue swimmers on board, Uhhuh <affirmative>. So the ship was stuck. So they opened it up to the whole ship, and I ran faster than everybody else, and I swam faster than everybody else, which surprised me. I, I just, I just volunteered. And I, when I, when I succeeded and I, I was, I was, you know, granted permission to go to the school, I was very surprised. But then more importantly, they, every day the instructors in this school are doing their best to get you to quit.

Jason Scott:

And I, I, oh, nice. And it was hard. And I went through two pairs of tennis shoes. And the first week my feet were falling apart with blisters. And when I finished, I, I remember having a moment where I was reflecting, and I, I was just in, I couldn’t believe that I graduated. And what’s funny is I was a young guy, and I realized at the time, I must have been a fit guy. And I was shocked that I graduated. And here I am many years later at almost 50, and I look at myself in the mirror and I’m like, I can’t believe I was a naval rescue swimmer. So what it taught me, what that experience taught me was that it, and this, this, this has been reinforced now several times throughout my career as an entrepreneur. But it’s not about being talented. It’s not be about being the best or being the brightest. It’s really just about never giving up

Martin Piskoric:

And the other, so grit.

Jason Scott:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, having grit is a huge, is a huge thing, is, I think it’s hugely important to accomplishing our goals.

Martin Piskoric:

Any specific personality traits?

Jason Scott:

See, I don’t, I don’t know that grit is a personality. I mean, I guess it is a personality trait, but I, I think it’s definitely something that could be nurtured, because I mean, I don’t think I had grit as a kid. Like, I, I feel like I just took beatings. Uh, and, you know, I’d wake up the next day and, and so I, you know, I shy away from stuff. I’d avoid stuff. I was super shy. I mean, I, I was an introvert. I guess I’m still an introvert. Um, but it, it wasn’t until later where like, rescues from school, I just decided I wasn’t gonna quit and I didn’t quit. Um, and then there’s been many after that. There’s been many encounters throughout my life that were just miserable and just, I just wouldn’t let quitting be an option. So I

Martin Piskoric:

So persistency maybe.

Jason Scott:

Is that, is that easy? No, I mean, I, yeah. I, I gotta, so my business has had its ups and downs, like most entrepreneurs businesses, although it was like a hockey stick until it wasn’t. And so when it wasn’t, when the hockey stick flipped upside down, it started heading the other direction. Uh, that was terrible. I was like, gut wrenching. ’cause it was, you know, basically my first child, my business. And, uh, through that process, I was diagnosed with P T Ss D. There was a point in time where I, I couldn’t speak without having a panic attack, and I just didn’t quit.

Martin Piskoric:

And how did you cope with it?

Jason Scott:

Lots of meditation. Um, co I confronted it head on. Um, I would conduct meetings, and over time I learned that I could be having a full-blown panic attack. And the people sitting across from me didn’t know it. That was super useful because what that helped me see was that even though I’m feeling just shut down inside and maybe, um, my, uh, imposter syndrome is kicking into high gear, but the, the person sitting across from me sees me performing. And so it became less scary. That was really helpful because when I first was diagnosed with P T S D, I thought my brain was broken, and I was afraid that I was gonna be broken forever. And what was super helpful is that as I didn’t give up and I confronted it, and I just worked almost like physical therapy, I just worked. And over time it became less scary. Meaning I’m not afraid that this is gonna inhibit my performance, and it made it easier for me to just proceed. And eventually it, it abated.

Martin Piskoric:

Does it have anything to do with, uh, inspiration to become transformational leader?

Jason Scott:

So that, another super interesting question. So I, I think I’d mentioned, so inspirational or transformative leader, or what some people might call a servant leadership in service of your team. So, I, I today fundamentally believe that a leader’s key performance indicator is that we enable our stakeholders. So whether that be our team members, our customers, our stakeholders, to define and deliver the necessary and expected results. Nobody hires a leader because they want their organization to be the same in a month, six months or a year. So that, that’s one approach to leadership. Our job is to play for the team. And when the team is successful, we are successful. So I am leading in service to my stakeholders. The other model, which we’re all too familiar with, is the command and control model, or the, I tell you, do model where the leader tells everybody on the team how to do their jobs.

Jason Scott:

And the leader makes it super clear that they need to be on time, they need to be perfect. Uh, they need to never have anything that’s not under control so that boss can get their bonus. So, to answer your question, I had to frame it a little bit. I grew up in Gangland, Los Angeles. Uh, so that gangland Los Angeles’s model is command and control. My dad is ex-military, so his model was command and control. And then I joined the military immediately before graduating high school even. Um, and that model is command and control. Well, with the exception of the special forces. Uh, so I, my whole childhood was seeing people with authority as leaders, but this isn’t true. And so when I, when I left the military and I got my first job, I did use my authority to motivate outcomes. Like most people at the time, this was 1996, this is when CEOs were still screaming at people in conference rooms and firing them.

Jason Scott:

That, you know, like, you’re not, we, we, we cannot talk to people like that anymore. <laugh>. Um, and not that it felt good then, or was a good thing. And so I remember using my authority to motivate outcomes, and then sometimes I would just have a human moment where I connected with a stakeholder and we collaborated together to get something done. And I, I guess I am fairly reflective as a human being, and I just remember one felt better than the other. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right? And so I started dissecting this, and I started reading a ton, and I realized that a leader, a manager and executive has authority, and they can use that authority to motivate an outcome. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, or they can use their influence to motivate an outcome.

Martin Piskoric:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Jason Scott:

I, I realized initially that it felt much better to use my influence to, to motivate an outcome than it did my authority. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, over time, upon reflection, I also realized I got much better results when I used my influence as opposed to my authority. And so, and then, so I started asking people questions. When I, when I give talks in front of audiences, I would describe the boss that, that leader who made ’em feel like their job was to show up and work really hard so the boss can be successful. And then I’d ask him to shout out a one word emotion for how that made them feel. Um, and it was never positive. It was always negative. Have you worked for that person, that command and control person, Martin? Yeah, absolutely. Gimme a one, gimme a one word emotion that that person made you feel.

Martin Piskoric:

Even fear. Even fear. Even fear. Right.

Jason Scott:

Terrible. Now, hopefully you’ve had the experience of working with a leader. And so I, I described this person as somebody that, that lifted you up, that, that gave you feedback that you felt was in service to you. Like they weren’t criticizing you. They were giving you the information that you needed to be successful, that they really wanted to help you succeed. Give me a one word emotion for how that person makes you feel.

Martin Piskoric:

Well, I would, I would say unbelievable energy, vibe, emotional, positive, emotional vibe.

Jason Scott:

So what wouldn’t you do for that person? Right? And, and so I, I ask this, and universally, it’s always the same negative response to how the boss made them feel. Positive response to how the leader made them feel. And, and this, I mean, this really gave me insight into how motivated people are in the command and control model. Not very motivated, probably clocking in, clocking out, uh, hopefully looking for their next job. The boss is telling them how to do their job so they’re not leveraging the collective iq. All of the solutions to challenges or opportunities are only as smart as one person. Innovation’s not possible over here in the leader model, where we’re serving the team, ensuring that, helping them architect their own roadmap to a shared goal, they’re motivated, they’re, they’re inspired, almost. And the leader is facilitating discussions around how they would get to a shared goal. So the solutions are smarter in this model. Innovation is possible, and it feels better. Last thing that I realized is control is an illusion. Mm-hmm.

Martin Piskoric:

<affirmative>,

Jason Scott:

People talk about holding people accountable. Really? Do you see anybody pouncing on anybody and grabbing them and wrestling to the ground and holding them accountable? Well, you would, in a, at least in the United States, you would go to jail if you did that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we can’t really hold anybody accountable. And it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s not true to believe that we can make people be accountable. And so I finally concluded over this huge journey of transitioning from command and control to a servant leader, a transformative leader. That choice is critical. The second I demand or insist that somebody do something, their natural reactions to resist. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you bring a fight, expect to meet resistance. Whereas if I give people a choice, I say, Hey, I think this is you, is this you? And you say, yeah, that’s me. That’s my role. That’s, that’s my expertise. And I say, I think we need to do this. And you agree, we do. And I, and you agree that it’s you. And then I ask you, okay, Martin, how would you accomplish this thing? And you tell me. And I think the way that you would do it will work. I’m not thinking, is this how I would do it? Because how I would do it is not optimize for you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’m thinking, do I think this will work? If what Martin is saying he wants to do first, it’s gonna be optimized for Martin. Two, you will have figured this out on your own. I’ve, I’ve helped elevate you. And three, I agree that this will work.

Jason Scott:

I’ve just increased the likelihood that it’ll work. The solution is smart as both of us. And if as a leader, I do this with an entire team, we’re innovation is possible. So tying this all back to the question that you asked purpose is, is huge. And I think keeps me going when, and my purpose is to inspire others to reach for their potential. I’m a, I’m a, an alumni of the Stagen Leadership Academy, and one of the things that they do is help leaders determine why they sh why they show up every day. ’cause it’s not for the paycheck. Mm-hmm. We need a paycheck. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We all need money. But Gallup found that what it, what truly inspires us in the workplace, once you take money off the table, is mastery, autonomy, and purpose. So one of the things staying does is help us figure out what we value and therefore, what our purpose is as a leader.

Jason Scott:

And, you know, we all have, all of us alumni have different purposes. And mine turned out to be, uh, that I, I strive to inspire others to reach for their potential. So, you know, I, I have a bad day, or <laugh> I’m struggling with PTSD I just stop. And I think, you know, why do I, why do I do this? Well, fundamentally, human beings wanna be successful at home with their families and in their lives. So that’s always the first thing that comes back to me, because I want to be successful in my life. And then I ask myself, what’s my purpose? And my purpose is to inspire others to reach for their potential. And I just go to work.

Martin Piskoric:

When you say inspire, you, you actually, you spoke about influence as well. So authority and the influence. How would you define that influence in a, in a, here’s in a concrete way.

Jason Scott:

Influence is a couple of things. First, a leader seeing what could be next so their teams or stakeholders can make what’s new. So vision,

Jason Scott:

Once I have a vision or I, I see what could be, or I, I see a possibility that would create value. That’s the other thing. It’s gotta create value. I would find people who would, would relate to that value that’s created. ’cause that’s the why behind why we’d be doing it, the value that needs to be achieved, right? So I have a, I have a vision. I figure out the why or the benefits, and then I clearly articulate them to you, and you get excited about it. Cool. You wanna participate? Okay? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, then I help you architect your own roadmap to our shared why.

Martin Piskoric:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Jason Scott:

All right. So I work with you to set you up to identify your next steps, how you’re gonna approach it, your goals, and then I sup then I support you, and I’m there to lift you up. I’m there to give you feedback that might help you improve and get closer to your goal. And I can, and what’s great about this is I don’t need any authority to do this. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I can be a manager and executive with authority, and I can use my authority to motivate outcomes, but authority is not very motivating. Or I could use my influence to motivate outcomes. Meaning I have vision. I see what value would be created. I find the people that would be inspired by this. And I help them architect their own roadmap to a shared goal, which is them reaching for their potential. And then I support them along the way where there will be misstep steps and deviation from the, the plan and, and things that are unknown.

Jason Scott:

This is very much like Martin Luther King. Nobody appointed Martin Luther King to be the leader of the human rights movement. He just saw a need for change. He shared his vision for that change, and the benefit of that change, the why behind the change. And people followed, and they didn’t follow because it was Martin Luther King’s why they followed, because it was their why mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he just was the leader, right? Like, movements aren’t just about the leader, although they get all the credit, but it’s really the followers that get aligned and buy in and do all the heavy lifting. So the real, the real heroes of a movement are really the followers.

Martin Piskoric:

Now, the, the hardcore question, namely that same Gallup has Q 12 tests for engagement. Yeah. And engagement is really in bad shape, not only worldwide, but but in the states as well. So what are your experience regarding

Jason Scott:

This is a, I love this question. So this, this one, I was drinking the engagement Kool-Aid for a long time before I really figured it out. In fact, I was teaching engagement. And in re retrospect, I, I don’t think I was teaching it correctly. So I, I wanna just take you on a, on a journey to reflect.

Martin Piskoric:

Jason, you’re very honest, very honest person. So you did, did something and absolutely great, fantastic. <laugh>

Jason Scott:

I got something wrong. I get wrong all the time until I get it right. This is fantastic.

Jason Scott:

So this one, this one was tricky. This one alluded me for a little while, and I finally, I finally figured it out. So I wanna take, I wanna take you on a journey. I want you to reflect on the last time you had a great idea that you were super excited about. So what’s the first thing that we do when we have a great idea that we’re super excited about? We wanna tell people about it. Uh, and this happens in the workplace quite frequently, where a team member will have a great idea and they want, they go to their manager or their leader, and they’re like, let me tell you about this great idea. Now, the downside to great ideas is that right now, in any given moment, everybody’s got too much work on their plate. So here’s you, you’ve got this great idea, and you bring it to somebody and they’re looking for reasons to say no.

Jason Scott:

And often the first thing they say is, now is not a good time. And we feel rejected. We’re like, rejected. But here’s the thing, it’s true. It’s, it’s not a good time right now. So cool. You got it out there, and now they’re thinking about it, right? And there’s a high degree of likelihood that they asked you a bunch of questions, which is funny because we then take that as they’re challenging the idea. They’re trying to figure out why this is not a bad idea. But then I flip this and I ask people, well, when somebody comes to you with a good idea, what’s the first thing you do? You ask questions to understand it, right? Because you don’t understand it. Martin understands it is this great idea. He’s been thinking about it for like hours or days or even weeks. And now he’s inspired to share with you, and it’s a bad time.

Jason Scott:

And if, but if you like him, you’re gonna try to understand. So you’re gonna ask questions. Guess what? That thing that we are receiving as rejection is engagement. Ah, it’s engagement. When you go to, if you go to your team members, or you go to your manager and you tell ’em about something and they don’t ask any questions, and they just nod their heads, and they’re like, yeah, that’s a cool idea, J, you know what? You don’t have engagement. Not good. Not good. <laugh>, you don’t have engagement. Yeah. So this, this, we, we accidentally or unintentionally as leaders, because of our instincts, because we feel like they’re challenging us. Like we, we were hoping they would embrace us and they would love us, that they would see us as successful and amazing. And the first thing they do is ask questions. And this is why Edward Freeman says, challenge, conflict, and critique.

Jason Scott:

We need to hold these things as value creating, right? Uh, and so just questioning feels like a challenge, but it’s engagement. So where I’ve flipped that in my thinking is when I address a room or I address an audience, and there’s no questions, nobody challenges my thoughts or my ideas, I don’t have engagement. If somebody challenges my thoughts or ideas, and I mean, I’d like them to get engaged and ask questions, and you’d think that it’s worse if they challenge my idea. But the best thing is if they’ll challenge it and say, well, J Scott, have you thought about this? Well, you know, in my experience, this works out like this. Only one of two things that are possible here, they’re gonna help me figure out that I’d be wasting my time if I were to pursue this path. And that’s a great outcome. That’s a great outcome.

Jason Scott:

They’re helping me. If they can help me see that this really isn’t a great idea, <laugh>, and nobody’s gonna buy it. It feels terrible, right? Except for if you realize it’s a gift, because they’re helping you see not to waste your time, or they challenge it in a way that causes you to improve it. Right? Hey, okay, I see this objection. I could see this. And people in the marketplace are gonna have this objection. How can we overcome this objection? Right? So this thing, this, this engagement, I feel like in a lot of books and the way that it’s described feels like this. This, Hey, let’s all get together and kumbaya and hug, and everything’s wonderful, and Martin’s ideas are freaking amazing. And we love Martin. Except for, that’s not how engagement works ever, right? It’s critical thinking that we’re looking for, right? Not positive reinforcement.

Jason Scott:

And more importantly, I read this book called The Mom Test, and I loved the premise of this book. When you come to people with a good idea and they give you compliments, it’s just because they don’t want to hurt your feelings. They’re not actually engaged, right? Like, it, it would be like taking an idea to your mom. Is she gonna tell you it’s a bad idea if she thinks it’s a good idea? Absolutely not. So it’s hard to tell if the positive reinforcement you’re getting from your good idea is authentic. However, you know what you absolutely know. The people that are willing to question and challenge you are being authentic. And this is your, this is engagement. This is what engagement looks like. And this is your opportunity to figure out that you’re wasting your time or how to overcome the market objections. Because one, human’s objections is representative of a segment of the market that will have this objection, and it’ll allow you either to refine or overcome that objection.

Martin Piskoric:

How did Next Jump Outfitters helped you live a life of exploration while balancing work and family?

Jason Scott:

So I, I started , which is our transformative leadership services firm. We help organizations get done 22 years ago. And I, I worked to create value and I spent every other moment outdoors either sailing or boating or hiking or climbing or off-roading. And so I, I, I mean, and I don’t know where this, it might’ve been star school where I became a rescue swimmer, but like, at some point along the way, I became like an adventure junkie.

Jason Scott:

I met my wife, who is super rad and my best friend. And we were together about a year. And then her and I, in a 60 foot sailboat by ourselves sailed across from Cabo San Lucas to Mazatlan across the, um, Gulf of California, just the two of us. And, um, we had to stand watch, right? You couldn’t go to sleep ’cause you could crash into something. And there was big winds and big seas. And so it came to midnight and it was time for one of us to go to sleep. And we decided one would sleep for two hours, and the other one then would wake them up and sleep for two hours. And, uh, I woke up after it was my, I fell asleep and I woke up and as waking up, I realized I fell asleep. And I realized, wow, I trust her enough to put my life in her hands.

Jason Scott:

She’d only been sailing for a year. I taught her how to sail. And that’s the moment that I realized that I wanted to marry her. So just tying that to adventure. So we adventured together, then we had kids, and our kids were they, they cruised on a sailboat in Mexico before they were a year old. Like they’ve just grown up adventuring. They don’t know anything different. So you could imagine <laugh> the amount of time and money that I spend on gear, okay? Yes. And you know, at at points, like the time that I went through 10 barbecues to find the perfect barbecue, I mean, my wife is supportive, but she felt like it was pretty ridiculous that I purchased 10 barbecues to find the per perfect barbecue. Um, we were, we were basically talking about all of the cool gear that we’ve found that’s, that we beat up.

Jason Scott:

And it’s purposeful, but it’s kind of niche and people don’t know about it, and they’re not selling it at r e i. And it just, it sort of became something that we did, that we started getting excited about sharing with other people. And we realized instead of just spending money, we could make money. So long answer to your story, we are obsessed with you. Think about what do we do at ? We’re all about helping people get the outcomes that we need. We as a family, including my kids, are obsessed with making, getting out, going easy, right? Like, so you figure the average human wants to go camping. They’ve got from Friday to Sunday night that everybody’s ready, the family’s ready, they get home from work at maybe five o’clock or take off early, like three 30 on a Friday. They’ve gotta take their gear, they’ve gotta load up their rig, they’ve gotta get all the food together.

Jason Scott:

It’s like hours then, then they drive and get to the campsite. They unload it, they stand it up, they sit there for two days, they break it back down, they take it home, they clean it up, they put it away. This is a lot of work for like, maybe a day, 24 hours at like a campsite. And I think this is an obstacle to people getting outdoors. I think a lot of people plan to go camping, take, take off early on a Friday and then don’t. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think they, they stay home. I think there’s a lot of people when they hear my stories, they want to go and, and then they, they say they’re gonna go and they commit to going and then they start planning and they’re like, God, I don’t have any gear. What do I buy? One of the obstacles, I think is simply figuring out what you need to cook a meal.

Jason Scott:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, dude, Martin, I know this isn’t a video, it’s a podcast, but here’s a culinary kit from Next jump. It’s got everything in it be that you need, that you need. And so if you were to come to our website instead of figuring, figuring out, do I need a spatula? Do I need a spoon? Do I need a knife? You could just buy the culinary kit on our website. Done. So think about it all the time and research that we did to curate this box eliminated for you, you just buy the box that makes the barrier of entry simple. And then you’re like, well, I need a camp kitchen. We’ve got a box for that. It’s got plates in it, it’s got hydro flask mugs in it, right? It’s got cutting boards. It’s, it’s literally everything you need, again, in a corrugated plastic box, which is basically, you know, not going to get destroyed from water.

Jason Scott:

It’s light, it folds flat. So essentially what we do is, is threefold. We build adventure trucks, trailers, and outfit boats to where you don’t ever have to pull your gear out of a cabinet and load it up. It just stays there. Okay? And, and by the way, this is all based on our truck, our boat, our trailers. So we’re only selling what we have proven lives up to our brutal standards in the fields. And so when it comes to us getting out, if we wanted to go camping, I’m, I’m 15 minutes from now to go, my whole family, like an eight year old, a 10 year old, and my wife 15 minutes to out the door. We can pick up groceries on the way. It’s the same if we wanna go voting for the weekend, take off and go from Tacoma to the San Juan Islands.

Jason Scott:

We’re 15 minutes to go. When, when we get wherever we’re going, all the gear is there. And so essentially what we’re doing is, like I said, we’re outfitting trucks, boats, and trailers that eliminate at least 50% of the effort to getting outdoors. ’cause they’re just ready to go at all times. We’re curating kits of gear. So you would come to us and say, this is the kind of adventure I’m into, and we would say, here’s a list of all of the gear that we would use on that adventure. And you could put it in your cart. Uh, this is all this part, the e-commerce part launches in July at Overland Expo in Bend, Oregon. It’s not ready. So if you go to the website, you’re like, what do these guys do? Um, but it’ll all be ready. So you can put it all in your cart.

Jason Scott:

You can buy what you can afford now, and then you’ll be able to share your cart with your friends and family, like a gift registry. So if you’re like a, you know, you’re like a college student and you wanna get started, but you have minimal dollars, right? Like you come to us, we eliminate all the research that you’ve gotta do to figure out what gear you need. You can buy what you, you can afford. You can share it as a gift registry. Then you’re like, cool, where am I gonna go? Well, we’re curating itineraries. We just spent 15 days in Baja California to find five places that are mind blowing. Uh, and so you’ll be able to go to our website and say, Hey, I wanna visit Baja for five days. Great. Go to these spots. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, we’re doing the same thing. We live in the Pacific Northwest, so we’re doing the same, we’re we’re gonna provide itineraries for, for Canada, for the Pacific Northwest. And over time, the idea is to provide simple itineraries. So if you come connect to tonik to Yeah. To create Yeah, exactly. <laugh>. So we eliminate the barriers because you’re like, okay, what do I wanna do? Here’s itineraries. What do I need to do that? Okay, here’s the gear. How do I get there? Okay. Now this requires a little bit of a big bigger budget. We can outfit your truck, your trailer or your boat.

Martin Piskoric:

I mean, it, it seems that there are still some United States Navy mindset in you.

Jason Scott:

It could be. It could be. And and the best part about this is my eight year old and my 10 year old. And my, my wife are my co-founders in this business. Oh, oh, really? When it comes, when it comes to rigging the trucks, my wife’s putting rivets in flatbeds, like right there beside me. My, you know, my son captures all of our drone footage. Like even when the rig is moving, you know, off-roading. Um, my daughter’s out there finding stuff to make jewelry and selling jewelry. Like they’re, I mean, they’re right there with us. It’s super cool.

Martin Piskoric:

Uh, business model. How did you organize all, all of that?

Jason Scott:

It starts with the standard. So I talked about being a transformational leadership company. So we, we, again, the reason that we’re efficient is because we, we have a, an ecosystem and we have accelerators. And that’s starts with a standard of what we believe and our principles. And so that informs our approach to how we lead. And then in our practices, we’ve got enterprise project services, we’ve got product management services, we’ve got organizational change services. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we literally have technical standards for achieving those. So you can go to Amazon and purchase the irreverent Guide to project management, which is an agile approach to enterprise project management. And that is exactly the playbook that we use to lead Trader Joe’s nationwide merchant processing system, which Visas and Visa MasterCard called a flawless implementation record time. It’s the exact same approach we took to migrate Sony pictures to the cloud in nine months with zero service disruption. We didn’t break anything. Every single IT person on the phone just went.

Jason Scott:

We didn’t break anything. You can contact the C I O, you just sort of a cloud migration where nothing was broken. The approach is in the book. You can buy it on Amazon. So that would be a one of our technical standards. And so for each of our practices, we have a standard, we have training and certification for all of our team members. And so each of our businesses take has a consultancy, it has an academy, and it has a network. And so what we do is we provide services to help people get stuff done mm-hmm. <affirmative> or we can train them and enable them to get stuff done. And then if they qualify, they can get into our network where it’s accountability group, where that group of peers is helping them constantly improve their ability to achieve the outcomes they need.

Jason Scott:

Next jump, it follows the exact same model. We’ve got a consultancy where we’ll help you figure out your gear or help you figure out your itineraries. Uh, we have an academy where we’ll teach you how to use stuff. Um, and then we basically are pulling together a network of, of people, uh, that are part of this movement that we’re calling jumpers, because we refer to it as jump life. Uh, so it follows the same model, like think of the consultancy as more enablement, right? So we build rigs, we build boats, we provide you itineraries. The academy is, we teach you how to, how to off road, right? So we’re gonna have rallies. Well, you’ll meet us up on a sand dune and it’s your first rig. And you’re like, I don’t know how to do this. And I’m scared, and you’re afraid you’re gonna get stuck.

Jason Scott:

So you’d go with this on a trip and we teach you how to do it. And then lastly, in all of this, we’re building community, my marketing company, which is called Brick and Matter or BamCo for short, same model. We provide enablement. So we’re gonna help you market, but not marketing for evil, uh, which is tricking people into buying things they don’t need. We don’t believe in that. We believe in marketing, like we believe in leadership. Leadership is enabling people to see the possibilities and then inspiring them to take action. Marketing is the same. If people don’t know about the value that you create for them, they’re not gonna buy your products. And it’s sad if you’ve got a product that solves a real problem that people need. So marketing is, is so we’re helping companies matter to their, to their people. There is an academy for training where we’re teaching our customers people how to do this, right?

Jason Scott:

So instead of just giving them the fish and coming back six months and being like, spend more money, we’ll give you more fish. <laugh>. Our whole thing is enabling them to be able to achieve each next step and, and, uh, have autonomy. And then through that, we’re building a network. Because one of the things that we do is our clients want to embed professionals. And so we’ll help them find a professional from our ecosystem. They’ll hire them, but then over the course of a year, we partner and we work with them, and we train them. And if they reach a point where they’ve outgrown some of the small businesses that we’re working with, and they want to go onto a larger business, they, they can either come back to work for us or they can, we can provide, we could present them to another client in a position that they’re absolutely ready for.

Jason Scott:

And again, that’s really the purpose of the network on the side, because people will come to work for us, or we’ll train them in on the client side. They become a part of our ecosystem. And when they’re, when they’ve outgrown their situation, we can help them break plug right into somewhere else in the ecosystem. And then you would think, well, that’s terrible. You pulled somebody out of your client’s account. No, we helped somebody that wasn’t growing anymore, move somewhere else. And oh, by the way, we don’t just leave the client hanging, we bring somebody from somewhere else in the ecosystem to plug the hole. So our clients are never like, oh, somebody left. I’m, I’m, I’m left hanging, I’ve gotta find this stranger. We’re like, no, you don’t ever have to find a stranger because we’ll find somebody in the ecosystem that that’s already our people, that’s already indoctrinated in our, in our 12 principles, uh, in one of our technical standards. Um, and so we really, we as a partner, we help our customers create continuity in achieving the outcomes, whether that be, uh, projects, uh, whether that be outdoor adventure, or whether that be marketing, helping people see the possibilities so they can be inspired to take action.

Jason Scott:

So seeing model across all businesses mm-hmm, we call it the 120VC brand community.

Martin Piskoric:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And in that process, organizational development process, what was your biggest challenge and how did you solve it?

Jason Scott:

My biggest problem was me.

Martin Piskoric:

Oh, really?

Jason Scott:

Yeah. So when I, I was young. I mean, you gotta figure high school dropout goes, gets out of the Navy, goes to work for four years at Universal Studios. I managed some really big projects for them. And it’s 27 years old. After four years in the workforce, workforce, I think I can start a company that helps the Fortune 1000 get better results on their projects. Pure hubris. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Now I did it, of course, but I would say the first 10 years I thought I knew the best way to do it. And so I was trying to do everything my way. I was delivering incredible outcomes because I was awesome. And it was hard. It was really hard. It was like pushing a rock uphill. I was not open to the possibilities. Hmm. So the biggest, like, I was a knower. I, and here’s the thing, I, I did, I got good outcomes. I knew what I was doing, but I didn’t, I didn’t get it. I didn’t get that I was serving, I needed to serve them first as opposed to serving myself. So the biggest shift, which allowed me to create velocity and success in my business was when I started noticing when it was hard.

Martin Piskoric:

So that was around 34. So you started with 24.

Jason Scott:

And I started 27.

Jason Scott:

And I’m almost 49, so the company’s been around 22 years. So I ask sadly, maybe 10 years ago, sadly, maybe 12 years ago, I started realizing that if, if it’s hard, I’m doing it wrong. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I need to stop and think, how else can I do this? And I need to seek input and I need to be open to the input of others. This is when I started realizing that if I helped others architect their own roadmap to a shared goal, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. The other thing, the other thing that I did was, uh, I started working with my partner in the marketing business, Andrew McGuire, who’s a very talented brand architect, right? Because I’m, I’m an entrepreneur, I’m a GSD guy, I get the marketing, but he’s really the genius behind the marketing. He helped me see how a brand narrative matters and brings about transformative results.

Jason Scott:

We, we actually use a lot of the marketing strategy in our transformation leadership strategy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And here’s the idea. When I was out there selling project management, even the people that needed project management didn’t care. When we started selling the transformative power of getting done, everybody cared. And so the first thing was we started selling the transformative power of getting done. And people would be like, J, we need to get done. And how do we do it? I would just apply our project management standard, and I would just apply or apply our product or our organizational change management standards. Okay? So people started talking to us, but then we made a commitment. We told people, we stopped telling people, we delivered project management, and we started telling people that we could help them get transformative outcomes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it’s like a, it’s like a social contract, right?

Jason Scott:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it became this, this shift in our brand narrative was cool. And it got people to care because we came up with a brand narrative that solved a real problem that people thought that they had, as opposed to project management. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> those people then said, we want that. So we made it, basically, we agreed to deliver that. So now we had to assess everything we were doing against that promise. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it really changed, it changed the way that we were looking at our business. Uh, it changed the way that we were operating our business. It changed the way that we were, we were, we were delivering some of our, our standards. Um, but then here’s the other thing that it did. Now, when potential team members come to us, we’re not necessarily looking for project managers. We’re looking for people that believe in the transformative power of getting done.

Jason Scott:

And we start, we started attracting a whole different type of human that was into that. So a lot of project managers will tell you, project management’s hard. My team of transformative leaders are in. ’cause they came for that. They showed up for that. So it became the social contract between me and my team members, as well as my future team members. It was, it was, it was, I just, frankly, amazing. So long, long story short, I was the biggest obstacle because I thought I knew everything and that, that all of this was possible because I was incredibly talented. I was a boss.

Martin Piskoric:

And emotional maturity was probably lower than now.

Jason Scott:

Hmm. Yeah. I would definitely say that that is the case, right? I’m, I’m barely, I’m barely there, but at this one, I do feel like I have it a little under control. So the, the big shift was for me, if it becomes hard to be curious about the possibilities, to seek the possibilities, if it’s easy and people are happy, it’s working, keep doing that. Right? But the second something becomes difficult, I need to open to other people’s opinions. Seek feedback, right? Like, how can this be better? Uh, and here’s the thing. Now it sounds more like I am helping, I’m even helping myself with getting others involved and helping me architect my own roadmap to a shared goal, right? I’m open. The other shift was I’m not doing any of this for me. If I serve first, if I serve my clients first and I serve my team member first, they’ll feel great and inspired, right? They’ll be successful, and then I’ll be successful. So I’d say that those were the two biggest mind shifts and even emotional maturity shifts that, that really removed. I mean, I, it’s very rare that I encounter an obstacle anymore. Just opportunities, challenges or opportunities. Oh, that happened. Cool. Let’s, let’s dive in and see what we can make of this.

Martin Piskoric:

Jason, in five years?

Jason Scott:

I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m open to the possibilities in, in five years, I’d like 120VC to be making a much larger impact than it is today. Um, I think that’s easily achievable. I’d like to see next jump outfitters and BamCo having a, a, a giant impact. And then we’ve got, we have literally in our strategic plan, an open spot for the next company that we’re gonna add to the brand community. Um, but I’m really, I, I feel like every our, our approach to every business creates value for all of our stakeholders, team members, uh, our clients, uh, our customers. And what what inspires me about that is that I figured out, and I told you this, I’ve said this several times, that leaders enable their stakeholders to define and deliver the necessary and expected results.

Jason Scott:

And what I’ve learned over the years, because I’ve taken over a lot of projects that were in distress and turned them around, that people on projects that are not getting the necessary expected outcomes, their quality of life is kind of terrible. They’re stressed out. They, they check their messages, they check they slack. They, they, they message during dinner, they get yelled at for during doing it during dinner. They work weekends, right? And they’re afraid that their financial livelihood is at risk. People on winning teams don’t check their email or, or messages during dinner. They connect with their significant others. They don’t work weekends, their quality of life rocks, they feel good. They’re winning because human beings fundamentally want to be successful and their economic prosperity is assured.

Jason Scott:

So really, in the big picture, I am obsessed with enabling people to reach or inspiring people to reach for their potential. So where am I in the next five years? I, I hope I am, I am continuing to inspire people to reach for their potential. What, how I’m doing that or what’s attached to, that’s really not important to me. But that’s the reason that I get outta bed every morning.